The Neurodiversity Academy and Workplace Accommodations with Tamzin Hall

In this episode, Tamzin Hall, founder of the Neurodiversity Academy, joins the AdaptX Podcast to explore how organizations can move beyond awareness and begin building neuroinclusive workplaces where employees feel seen, supported, and psychologically safe. Drawing from over 25 years of leadership experience, and her own lived experience as a dyslexic professional, Tamzin shares how companies can create cultures that empower individuals to embrace their neurodivergence instead of masking it. She breaks down how her team helps organizations train leaders, co-coach managers and employees, and develop “neurodiversity profiles,” a tool that functions like a CV to help neurodivergent employees communicate their strengths, needs, and stress responses in the workplace.

Tamzin and host Brendan Aylward discuss the value proposition of inclusion, explaining how psychological safety and individualized accommodations lead to higher employee engagement, lower turnover, and stronger overall performance. They touch on practical strategies like implementing quiet rooms, hybrid work options, and awareness workshops that reduce stigma and improve empathy across teams. For fitness professionals and business owners, Tamzin offers insight into adapting environments for individuals with autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and other neurodiverse traits - such as offering quieter hours, flexible schedules, and remote training options.

Ultimately, this episode reframes neurodiversity not as a challenge to be managed but as a competitive advantage when understood and supported effectively. Whether you’re a gym owner, manager, or HR professional, Tamzin’s work underscores that true inclusion isn’t about changing people, it’s about changing systems, communication, and culture so that every individual can thrive.

Brendan Aylward (00:01.162)

All right, welcome to the AdaptX podcast where we have conversations with individuals who are building accessible businesses, advocating for inclusion or excelling in adaptive sports. Our intention is never to speak on behalf of those with disabilities, but provide a platform to share insights into a more accessible world. Today we are joined by Tamsen Hall. Tamsen is the founder of the Neurodiversity Academy and committed to empowering individuals who embrace their unique selves. With over 25 years of leadership experience, Tamsen is not only an accomplished author and qualified performance psychology coach, but also a passionate advocate for neurodiversity.

As a dyslexic herself, she leads by example, inspiring others to embrace their differences and thrive. Tamsen, thank you for joining me today.

Tamzin Hall (00:38.485)

Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Brendan Aylward (00:40.43)

Thanks for watching!

So language is ever evolving, so throughout the episode I might be using person first. For those who aren't familiar with the differentiation, person first being an individual with autism, as opposed to an autistic individual, which would be identity first language. Not necessarily taking a stance one way or the other, but just kind of using them interchangeably, and everyone kind of has their unique preferences in terms of how they are identified and communicated with. So as we discuss autism, neurodiversity,

those, yeah, I guess that language might pop up. So again, very context dependent. But so the Neurodiversity Academy, maybe we'll start with that. So the goal is to create inclusive work spaces. Could you tell us a little more about the work that you do with those companies?

Tamzin Hall (01:33.577)

Yes, of course. So as I navigated through my corporate career, it came very apparent to me that organisations, they kind of wanted to get this right. They wanted to support, they wanted to be inclusive, whether it's a tick box exercise or something deeper, but the how was missing. They didn't know how. Quite a lot of leaders were afraid to even have a conversation and

almost as soon as neurodiversity or dyslexia or autism or ADHD was mentioned, I find a lot of people kind of back off because they're scared to even have a conversation. They don't know how to have that conversation. And so my absolute passion, the reason that I truly believe I'm here in this world is to help everybody just shine, just thrive, regardless of...

who they are, what they do, what colour their skin is, where they live, their cultural background, regardless of anything, I truly believe everybody deserves to thrive and be supported and be given an environment where they can really be the best version of themselves, whatever that may be. And I see a lot of support with neurodiversity in our personal lives, but not so much support for business owners, leaders.

individuals who are interacting with people with neurodiversity to really help them to understand how do I manage, how do I lead, how do I support this individual to have an environment to be supported, to be understood. So I created the Neurodiversity Academy and I do so many different modalities within that from training leaders, training business owners, that's awareness on the different

in neurodiversities that come up. Also coaching, co-coaching, bringing leaders and the neurodivergent individual into a room together and help them to understand each other. Creating neurodiversity profiles, which is a bit like a CV for neurodiversity, because some people, maybe somebody with ADHD or autism, might really struggle to explain what's.

Tamzin Hall (04:00.381)

what's going on, what do they need, how do they show up when they're stressed, what do they need to be feeling really psychologically safe. And so that kind of CV for neurodiversity really helps people to go into organisations and say, this is what shows up for me, this is how I'm feeling. To training, courses, anything really that falls under that neurodiversity banner.

in organisations with leaders, business owners to help navigate through.

Brendan Aylward (04:35.158)

You mentioned that some of them are scared to have those conversations. How do you facilitate or kind of bridge that gap between an initial interest in being more accessible and the concerns that they're not even sure where to start?

Tamzin Hall (04:48.873)

Yeah. To me, it's all around communication. And the more that I navigate through this journey, a neurodivergent individual doesn't mind being asked questions, as long as they're not questions that are in a... derogatory way. They're not, you know, I'm perfectly happy for somebody to say to me, I want to understand about your dyslexia. Tell me how it shows up for you. More than happy to have that conversation. And...

As long as we are being open, honest, we're thinking about the other person, we're interested, we're not being judgmental, we're just being supportive, have an open conversation. Just ask the question, how are you today? What's going on for you? Are you okay? And I find neurodivergent individuals are just...

amazing, wonderful, fabulous people, but people that don't understand, and I suppose this is, this comes with everything doesn't it, if we don't understand something as human beings we're almost scared of it. If we don't understand a situation, a change, an individual, those behaviours either we kind of retract and walk away or we don't know how to support because

We're scared, we're scared of saying something wrong, of doing something wrong. To me it's just having a conversation in a really authentic way.

Brendan Aylward (06:27.754)

Yeah, it's a tough balance between the diversity within a diagnosis like autism and understanding it versus like...

Maybe you don't need to understand every part of it to still respect and empathize and support someone. So some of the research that I've been reading recently has talked about, you mentioned psychological safety, that term's popped up a few times. So many people being concerned about disclosing their disability to their employers or in various environments.

How do you think that can begin to be addressed? How can a workforce create employees that are more comfortable asking for accommodations and sharing what support they need?

Tamzin Hall (07:16.449)

It's really difficult because these individuals, they will have had years of potentially judgement being called out. You know, I know that I did throughout my school, throughout my career, years of being made to feel that I wasn't good enough, made to feel that I was the one that was naughty, disruptive. All of those really negative emotions. So for a lot of people, I'm certainly finding in the workplace...

they don't want to share because they've got so many negative experiences that have happened in the past because of them sharing. And it's very difficult to break that cycle and to say, okay, that was in school, that was in a previous, that was before society started to understand and recognise and want to support neurodiversity.

potentially people have experienced really negative experiences towards them pre-neurodiversity even being a thing. So there's a lot of history and that's why a lot of people don't want to share because they're worried about that stigma, that judgment. And yeah and obviously we can't say to somebody do you have autism that isn't something that

Brendan Aylward (08:34.206)

Yeah.

Tamzin Hall (08:43.865)

we can say, we can't say that. We can't call people out and ask that question. But what we can say is, are you okay? How's things going for you? Maybe we have somebody who keeps turning up late. So with ADHD, no concept of time. People just don't have that concept of time. And so if you have somebody that is constantly turning up late, just creating a really...

safe space where you can sit down and have a conversation when nobody else is around and support them and say is there anything going on, is there any way that I can support you. And they might not say anything the first time, the second time, the third time, but if you create that environment where they do feel psychologically safe, they do feel they can say anything to you and they won't be judged and that anything's okay, that's a really good way to say...

I'm here to support you.

Brendan Aylward (09:45.422)

There might be a little bit of a push and pull between businesses wanting to be more inclusive and accessible, but at the same time, being very metric driven, profit driven. So what is the value proposition of inclusion and an inclusive workforce that you share with these executives that are kind of the key stakeholders in making these decisions?

Tamzin Hall (10:10.569)

So when we have a individual who is feeling, not feeling psychologically safe, feeling in a stress state of freeze, a flight, freeze, fight, flight, freeze state, they're not gonna be giving their best. They're gonna be turning up to work stressed, anxious, worried that...

they're not getting things right, worried that the spotlight is on them. And they're not going to be performing at their best because they don't feel at their best. And when we support and create an environment that really suits the individual, because everybody's different, every single person on this planet is different. We all need different things. And when an organization,

really provides an environment that the individual can thrive, that starts with the individual understanding what they need. So a lot of work has to be done prior to that. But when the individual understands what they need and the business understands and the business supports, okay there might be times when we can't give everything, it may be that we have a

you know, say a gym that's open from six o'clock in the morning till six o'clock in the evening. And that's their opening hours. That's when their clientele are going to want to be and interact and staff have to be there. But we have a newer individual that says, well, actually, I can't get there till 12, so I can't do my eight hour day. Obviously, then there's a bit of.

how can I accommodate when my opening hours are this? So there has to be a bit of give and take, of course there has to be. But ultimately, if we can have that conversation and be very transparent, be very open, openness and transparency and communication, understand what the individual needs, understand what the business needs, but when we can really support these individuals.

Tamzin Hall (12:27.637)

help them to thrive, understand them, notice them, value them, give them all the tools and techniques and strategies that they need to navigate through, they will be high performing. They will be top of their game, firing on all cylinders, thriving, happy. Every single business owner wants a team who is thriving, happy, and high performing.

Brendan Aylward (12:57.518)

So yeah, on the topic of high performing, have you noticed any specific skill sets within individuals who have neurodiversity, or even in your experience, having dyslexia? Are there any specific unique characteristics that you think are an advantage for you in a work setting?

Tamzin Hall (13:19.457)

So many, so many. Creativity, innovation, thinking outside the box. You have some individuals who are absolutely fabulous at.

Tamzin Hall (13:35.221)

putting all the pieces together, being very detailed, really wanting to follow a structure, creating the most amazing structures. And then you have some people who can't stand structures, but can really adapt and think outside the box. Everybody has so much to bring. And I find as I navigate through on this journey, it seems to me that society,

humans, people around us, the internet is always looking at the negatives. These are the challenges of autism, these are the challenges of ADHD, these are the challenges of dyslexia. What about if we looked at the strengths and said, oh my gosh, these individuals are so fabulous, they can create the most amazing things.

They can be so focused, so determined, so creative.

Brendan Aylward (14:42.174)

Yeah, and there's some like, we even notice it at the gym, like some of our clients on the spectrum like thrive in a routine, their attention to detail is exquisite. Those smaller things like, and I've read stories about individuals with autism being able to replicate entire maps after seeing them, stuff like that. There's just like so many ways and I know some of those virtuoso, like situations are maybe outliers, so shouldn't make an assumption

Every individual with autism has these savant-like skills. But there's definitely areas where, when you might have a deficit in one sense or one skill, it creates a huge advantage in another. At least we've seen that.

Tamzin Hall (15:29.951)

Yeah.

Brendan Aylward (15:31.65)

And I've also read some statistics about just retention of individuals with neurodiversity within the workforce being a lot stronger. And I know that's something employee turnover and retention is really important for companies. So I know that's another advantage.

One thing that I'm thinking about or that I have been thinking about recently is in my gym environment, there's music playing, there's people with and without disabilities. I know that's not the perfect environment for every individual with autism, excuse me. Some people might have sensory needs and overstimulating environments aren't ideal for them. So I wonder what the balance is

promoting inclusion or advocating for the inclusion of people with or without disabilities while also respecting that an inclusive quote-unquote inclusive environment might not be what everyone wants. Does that make sense?

Tamzin Hall (16:34.601)

100% and it's difficult because we will never be able to please everybody a hundred percent of the time Because every single person has so many unique needs whether that's neurotypical or neurodiverse everybody likes performs better wants things their own way and It's it's hard to get that balance right in the UK we have

supermarkets who offer times of days where the lights are dimmer, there's no music, or there's soothing music, and it's not very busy, there's not that noise, there's people around to help them. And so if that bright lights, loud music, very busy atmosphere...

is not the right environment for an individual, they know, I can go to the supermarket at X time of day and I will feel really comfortable. So maybe it's a solution where you can offer periods of the day where everything's quieter, the music's lower, the lights are dimmer to accommodate.

Brendan Aylward (17:55.814)

Yeah, that's definitely an applicable strategy for sure. One that would probably be pretty easy for some gyms to implement. And it's that, we could certainly do that here on some of the late morning, early afternoon hours. It would be tough, but that time might not be the most convenient time for a working individual with autism, so yeah, but making some adjustments to the environment offering.

offering those accommodations at various times is definitely something that gyms could probably pretty easily implement for sure. What strategies that you share with leaders and companies do you think a fitness community could use to boost morale within not only their workforce, but within their membership base and maybe improve inclusion?

Tamzin Hall (18:48.501)

It starts with awareness, so it starts with understanding and that awareness piece, when we're aware, if somebody, say you have somebody who is a member and they come up to the front desk and they're abrupt, they just want the facts, tell me what's happening.

If somebody doesn't understand that some neurodiverse brains are very direct, they might perceive that person to be rude, maybe. But they're not being rude, they're just being themselves. And that awareness piece to understand even just those top five to ten traits of all the different neurodiversities.

can just help to bring that understanding in. And for the person behind the desk who's working at the gym, who's had somebody come up who potentially has been quite abrupt, there's then a bit of compassion to think, nobody, nobody wakes up in the morning and says, I want to be rude today. Nobody does. And so anybody that comes up and is maybe a bit abrupt,

this is a lot of the conversations that I'm having at the moment where a neurodiversion individual comes to me and says I'm being told that I'm too rude. I'm being told that I'm not communicating the right way and it isn't on the neurodiversion individual to change, it's on society to understand and have that awareness. The number of times I've been told,

You're like a square peg and I'm trying to fit you into a round hole. You can't change me. I'm a square peg. We need to change the hole. And then everything's fine. And that starts with awareness. And so...

Brendan Aylward (20:58.23)

That's better, yeah.

Brendan Aylward (21:02.795)

No, you finished your point. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

Tamzin Hall (21:06.441)

And I was just going to say, so when we can understand and have that awareness of what is going on in those common traits, that's when things start to change.

Brendan Aylward (21:18.358)

Yeah, absolutely. I think those, like the communication differences is an interesting point. I know behavioral therapies is ABA, something that's practiced in the UK pretty regularly as well. I know some of the critiques of that are that...

They're essentially what you just described, trying to fit a square peg into a round hole while trying to get everyone to move towards some pre-established norm of normalcy. Do you think behavioral therapies have a place in supporting someone with a neurodiversity or are there different strategies to do so?

Tamzin Hall (22:06.593)

There are so many different strategies and so many different therapies and I think personally, as long as they're, and this is obviously my opinion, but as long as they're rooted in science and there's research to back that science up, I think they have a place. Are they right for everybody? No. So to me it's that understanding and...

I truly believe that if we're looking at behaviours...

Tamzin Hall (22:43.021)

Should we really be trying to change the behaviour of somebody when that behaviour isn't hurting anybody?

Obviously if somebody is causing pain and hurt and harm to themselves or the people, then yes.

Tamzin Hall (23:03.373)

understanding, compassion and awareness go really long.

Brendan Aylward (23:10.658)

That's kind of the premise of the social versus the medical model of disability in that you don't necessarily have to change the individual, but rather the environment to support the individual's needs. Stereotypy and various characteristics of neurodivergence, I guess the challenge that they present is that, at least in the gym space, a lot of people don't have exposure to them. So they're kind of taken aback when they

hear scripting or see certain self-stimulating behaviors, how can a company, I guess, kind of like foster better understanding or awareness throughout their entire membership base without having to conduct a formal training? Like, I don't know, is there a way for a gym to get a lot of people up to speed on these things?

Tamzin Hall (24:10.689)

So my go-to is awareness training. So just offering awareness training and I've conducted awareness training in churches, in gyms, in organizations. And it's just a workshop, I suppose, maybe a free workshop where someone can come in and it's just a talk on neurodiversity. So if anybody has somebody who is neurodivergent in their lives or they are.

a 90 minute, one hour lunch bites awareness session is a really good place to start.

Brendan Aylward (24:52.458)

Yeah, I think we've to a degree normalized it a bit in our space to the point where it's just kind of through osmosis almost. Some of our quote unquote neurotypical high school clients or whatever who don't have any exposure to disability see an individual exhibiting behaviors that they haven't seen before and it's just like, all right, they're also working out. We kind of have this shared interest. They're not really that much different. It's not really interrupting me in any way.

that they just see that and then when they see it pop up in their day-to-day life, it's like, I hope it just kind of comes like an afterthought to them as opposed to something that is disruptive and really sticks out.

But yeah, it's an interesting topic as we try to help gyms create more accessible and inclusive environments. I think that's one of the things that, with a visual disability, a physical disability, people automatically default to empathy and there's more awareness around it. But with some of these disabilities that don't have an outward facing appearance, it is sometimes harder for people to be receptive to initially

So in some ways, it's more challenging than physical disabilities in that regard.

Tamzin Hall (26:13.961)

Yes, and especially as we mentioned earlier, some people don't want to share because of the stigma or the experiences that they've received in the past. So it can be tricky if you have an individual showing those behaviours or being themselves and it being slightly different to neurotypical people but then not having that communication and not having that openness for various reasons.

Brendan Aylward (26:44.286)

Yeah, is there a specific story or success or highlight that kind of stands out to you in terms of maybe a company that you've worked with or an individual that you've worked with?

Tamzin Hall (26:44.32)

difficult.

Tamzin Hall (26:57.053)

Yeah, so it's so many, the common theme in that I'm seeing at the moment is that we are having quite a few disciplinary hearings or we're going down the route of disciplinaries with staff because the member of staff hasn't disclosed, hasn't said that they have a neurodiversity.

And so they're being treated, turning up late, for example. So turns up late consistently for the last six months. We're going to have to go down to this because the individual just cannot get to work on time. And it's only when they're at the disciplinary hearing that they've said, I've got ADHD.

And so we're then having to backtrack and to halt the disciplinary hearings and support the individual to help accommodate and come up with strategies and help them to. But it's almost got to the point where that individual is almost backed into a corner before they felt able to share. And as it turns out, the individual didn't feel like they were able to share.

because of everything they've experienced in their life. It was nothing to do with the line manager. It was nothing to do with the organization. They're actually a very inclusive organization, but the communication hadn't been there. The member of staff, when I speak into the member of staff and I go to the member of staff, so much trauma from past experiences, they just couldn't share. They just didn't tell anybody. And that internal struggle that they...

we're dealing with every single day is heartbreaking. When you drill down, you have that conversation.

Brendan Aylward (28:54.014)

Yeah, that was...

That was a theme that a previous guest mentioned when I asked her how can we as quote unquote able bodied individuals be the most effective advocates or allies when we appreciate and understand that the lived experience is essential to understanding the needs of these populations and she said a lot of times, excuse me, the people that she's advocating for are

like you said, afraid to disclose things, or they're tired of asking for the same accommodations over and over again without any success. So sometimes it can be up to her, or it can be up to me to kind of take over some of those advocating duties on their behalf, not implying that we know what they need.

but maybe just being a support in that way. So I just, as you were kind of sharing that story, it was just something that kind of came to mind for me that the reinforcement of I'm not gonna get the support I need from all these years is what prevents people from asking for the accommodations that they do need.

Tamzin Hall (30:09.205)

Absolutely. And the best thing that organisations and employers can do is not just talk about being inclusive, but show their staff they're inclusive. Show them every single day that we are inclusive, from awareness training to quiet rooms to safe places that people can go to. Really show them. And when we create an environment where we're not only saying

we're inclusive, we're showing we're inclusive, individuals start to feel more psychologically safe.

Brendan Aylward (30:47.318)

Yeah, on that topic, it just kind of popped in my mind, as you mentioned, quiet rooms and stuff at the office. As a lot of companies, I don't know if it's different in the UK, are encouraging return to office policies versus hybrid or remote schedules. What would be the most inclusive offering in that regard? A hybrid work schedule, a remote work schedule, like how can a business support

the different needs through where they allow individuals to work.

Tamzin Hall (31:21.857)

There was a study, complete, I think it might have been a study, in fact it was a study in America, there was actually the cost of staff being made to go back to the office full-time is the equivalent of a weekly food shop. And we have to take into account, of course we have to take into account the benefit to the business for getting the staff to come back into work full-time, but there's also that

that really fine line between individuals who really don't enjoy being in the office. And personally what I'm seeing is the most effective is a hybrid working pattern. Because as human beings, even though a large number of the neurodivergent community want to be in their own homes, working behind a screen, not being in contact with other people, actually

we are social animals as human beings and we thrive and we are happier when we connect with other people. So I think that hybrid where we're saying you can have those couple of days at home where you feel safe but we really want you to come into the office and experience that community and that connection and giving people

the, if it's in an office environment, giving people that corner desk where they're away from noise, away from distractions, away from people walking past all the time, making sure they have that quiet room that they can go to. And a really good option that I'm seeing at the moment that's really effective is having a safe person. So having somebody that understands that they

can just send a Teams message or just send a text message or just say it's a bad day today without having to explain without having to go into any other detail but sometimes just that I've said it out loud I've said I'm having a bad day is enough for some people just to feel supported.

Brendan Aylward (33:43.262)

Yeah, and there's no shortage of remote fitness options now as well, but I feel like that could maybe be another simple solution to maybe reaching more individuals with neurodiversity is offering remote options that they can do from the comfort of their home.

So that's just another thing, I guess, as the landscape has definitely evolved over the last four years. Since COVID, remote fitness has obviously become more popular, but it's something that all the small gyms like myself could probably offer more thoroughly as well as those remote options. Still having a accountability coach, still have guidance, fitness guidance, not necessarily a prerecorded class like you might get from something like,

your exercise bike or your treadmill, but like still having a coach there, but being able to do it behind a screen in whatever environment you're most comfortable in could be another decent recommendation or a small actionable tip that a fitness professional could adopt. If people wanna learn more about the work that you do or some of these topics, where would you recommend that they find you? We'll include it in the show notes, but we'll let you promote it first.

Tamzin Hall (34:58.897)

Amazing, thank you. Yes, so I'm Tamsin Hall, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Instagram as Tamsin underscore hall and my website is then

Brendan Aylward (35:13.739)

And that is, who's the target audience with that? Maybe just so kind of consolidate it.

Tamzin Hall (35:20.545)

So my target audience is anybody in a leadership role or a neurodivergent individual in work. So in the workplace, helping to really get that workplace working effectively. Lots of workings in there, but trying to... Supporting people in the workplace really is, yeah.

Brendan Aylward (35:41.586)

it.

Brendan Aylward (35:45.502)

And while you're housed in the UK, you can accommodate supporting individuals in the states as well.

Tamzin Hall (35:51.217)

Absolutely, absolutely. I have clients all over the world, which is the beauty of all this now, isn't it? All the tech and online stuff.

Brendan Aylward (35:54.386)

It's...

Brendan Aylward (35:59.386)

Yeah, absolutely. It really is.

Well, thank you so much for having the conversation. I think it's a super important topic I think there was definitely some good actionable tips that Jim's could easily adopt I think so many people think accessibility and inclusion requires expensive retroactive renovations to the physical environment or Compromising one service in order to support another But there's so many easy low barrier to entry ways that businesses can be more inclusive and accessible and

That's the goal of this podcast is to share them and have our experts Share what they do and see if we can apply it to the fitness space as well. So Tams I really appreciate it. That was perfect

Tamzin Hall (36:44.948)

You're welcome. Thank you so much for having me.